Ran into a friend on the F-train this morning. We talked all the way to 59th Street (we both changed trains at Jay Street Boro Hall). She’s a journalist and we talked about her work, my work. It was a great way to pass the time. She told me two things I was glad to hear about. One: Park Slope new mom Amy Sohn, formerly New York Magazine’s sex columnist, ranted on her blog about Park Slope Stay-At-Home-Moms (SAHM). Needless to say, I was dying to read it. My friend, who was a SAHM for eight years, said it was mean, mean, mean. Two: She also told me about her friend’s blog, Mr. Nice Guy. He’s a Stay-At-Home-Dad who is also a journalist. It’s a great blog and he’s part of a group called The Blogfathers.
What I didn’t know is that Mr. Nice Guy, on his blog, took Amy Sohn to task for her anti-SAHM rant. And boy, the sparks did fly. Here are some excerpt from Sohn’s piece and Mr. Nice Guy’s response.
AMY SOHN: Here in my neighborhood, Park
Slope, I am constantly encountering insane stay at home moms (SAHMs).
And I have come to the all too un-PC conclusion that stay-at-home
motherhood, despite the way our culture lionizes it, is bad for the
child and bad for the mom. And bad for society. It’s just plain bad.MR. NICE GUY: hmm,
yes. our culture lionizes stay-at-home moms. simply adores them. gives
them health insurance and writes songs about them. and the moms i met
in the nine months i was a stay-at-home dad? totally insane. we’re
talking feces-throwing multiple personality-having batshit bananas.
clearly this is the beginning of a well-reasoned and researched,
articulate treatise on parenthood.AMY SOHN: Most
of the SAHMs I know are really miserable. The working moms I know hate
their jobs and hate working but they’re not miserable in the kind of
extreme and neurotic, soul crippling, Zoloft inducing Yellow
Wallpaper-type way the SAHMs are.MR. NICE GUY: let’s
stop here a moment and marvel. the moms i know–and boy do i know me
some moms–tend not to have crushed souls or zoloft-stocked medicine
cabinets. they, in fact, tend to be smart, rational, funny people who
are candid about the trade-offs of stay-at-home parenting. oh, also,
they actually like parenting. talk about crazy!AMY SOHN: When
you spend all day with a baby you go a little crazy and I don’t think
the SAHMs realize how crazy they are. All these college-educated smart
women who once had opinions about things and read the newspaper now can
only talk about poop and pancakes with kale and Veggie Bootie and
natural Cheerios versus regular ones.MR. NICE GUY: first of all, what’s
wrong with talking about poop? poop is funny. second of all, kale
pancakes? ca-ca-crazy! i’m starting to rethink my affinity for some of
these moms and start to hating on them too!Read more at Mr. Nice Guy
PS is the right size for a good gossip scene and has enough literate types to keep it at a pretty high level. Just imagine the lackluster gossip, not to mention the paucity of any community life at all, in the distant climes of the boroughs and beyond. Good gossip reflects the vitality of PS which may be the main reason that most of us without children live here. We didn’t come for the schools. Viva, Amy Sohn (you insensitive snot). Viva PS moms and dads.
I hope Amy starts writing in scandalous detail about her impending divorce and child custody battle, that would get her writing back on track to being somewhat interesting. She needs to just admit she hates motherhood and her marriage.
Yeah – I think your analysis is self-serving and not based in either biological or human psycological facts. Good luck with it. None of my 4 teen-agers would pay it much mind.
Ruben
I’m glad you asked that Ruben. In fact, the primordial need to procreate in all higher species is followed right up with the equally essential need for offspring to separate and individuate from their parents – to literally and figuratively leave the nest. Parents, unfortunately, learned ages ago that children can easily be conditioned to become dependent and then, exploited. Early on, the exploitation was for cheap labor on the farm, then for maintaining control of the family business. Today’s co-dependent parents exploit their children for the purposes of their egos – to make themselves feel special or important where they otherwise harbor feelings of inadequacies. Alexander Lowen, famed psychoanalyst who coined the term “body language,” found that 99% of all children are abused when you consider that children growing up with unfulfilled, unactualized parents are inevitably exploited emotionally, even if there is never any kind of actual physical abuse.
As far as Ms. Sohn’s comments and book, she is certainly generalizing and over-the-top in moments, but her point remains valid. Parents who give up adult growth and expansion, be it in a career or in their romantic/sexual life to be with children, will ultimately come to disadvantage those very children.
possessive = pocessive
my apologies…
Peter
I fail to understand your excitement about people feeling pocessive of their families and children? What did you think is the atruistic primordial need to procreate is about?
As for Ms Sohn’s comments, you have to take them with a grain of salt. She’s a mother for what? all of a few weeks and still finds time to schedule readings on the upper west side for erotical for the kinky Jews. Give her a few years. If she is nearly as bright as she thinks, she will develop a healthier attitudes about motherhood and her children as she matures, or at least I hope so for her children’s stake.
Ruben Safir
Okay potato head bobby. In your own words: “MY’ kids… “MY’ grandparents…” “I’LL’ be damned if ‘I’ will dishonor their memory…” Seems to be a lot about you, huh? The thing is this, if your traditions are worth remembering, all you have to do is live them and the kids will honor them. My issue here is in the FORCING of it. Sounds like YOU might not feel something is worth honoring.
“just like our parents tried to force us to become the legacy of their dreams by forcing us to pledge to a flag, go to church or temple and learn to love niblets corn frozen in butter sauce.”
Actually, my kids go to synagoue & religious school so they can learn their cultural background. My grandparents risked life and limb to escape Russian pogroms and Bolshevik thugs, and I’ll be damned if I will dishonor their memory and struggle by allowing their traditions to be forgotten.
The biggest problem with the current breed of SAHMs, particularly of the variety concentrated in Park Slope, is that they are vicariously and nefariously creating a generation of insecure narcissistic children with weak egos and an inability to develop true autonomy. As a therapist and parent living in Park Slope, I am seriously troubled by this phenomenon. These children are being deprived of a chance to develop genuine individuality by parents who are not fulfilled in their own romantic/sex lives and/or in their careers. The desperate housewives and househusbands of Park Slope are apparently unaware of the repetition compulsion they are caught in as they try to force their children, through over-indulgence, excessive permissiveness and hanging out at the Tea Lounge to be what they want them to be… just like our parents tried to force us to become the legacy of their dreams by forcing us to pledge to a flag, go to church or temple and learn to love niblets corn frozen in butter sauce. Of course, we adults are all supposed to be teachers for our kids, explaining how gravity works and why you shouldn’t run into the street after a ball, but beyond that, I think the words of Pink Floyd sum it up best: “We don’t need no thought control. Teacher, leave those kids alone.”
I checked out the lates post regarding Sohn – what is it 9 months later, but still people are talking.
Good post by Justine. This Coco lady is kind of nutty. she claims that sahm’s don’t become CEO’s etc. What about Nancy Pelosi – I believe she raised 4 children and is now speaker of the house??? Think and read before you assert foolish things
Whoa Cocco,
I have to take you to task, and I’m a working Mom! I really think that the problem is just these kind of entrenched, reactionary attacks – from either side. Whether working mom or SAHM, either choice involves compromise and sacrifice. Personally, I find it very hard to be away from my child during the week AND I sometimes find it a little mind numbing to be home all day.
I have to say whenever someone takes such a strong/absolutist stance either way; I suspect they are speaking from their own insecurities. And really why wouldn’t we feel insecure, raising a child is a big responsibility!
Without sounding like I’ve drunk the cool aid too much, as moms we really should be supporting each other or at least engaging in a constructive dialogue, not attacking. For wouldn’t it be nice if we really could have both work and motherhood? Only by working together can we really effect any change to make all our situations better.
Oh, and being a SAHM is NOT anti-feminist. Read “Maternal Desire.”
sohn’s a calculating loudmouth who will say anything that pops into her addled head, and, if it’s provocative, she’ll print it. she wasn’t interesting when she was fucking and sucking her way up the ladder, and she’s not interesting now. her background is so utterly provincial that she believed, really believed, that writing, in the 1990’s, about cock, was outre.
leave her and her prissy little brain to herself. if people stop talking about her, she’ll become really depressed and move to st. louis, or someplace where people might fall for her act for another 15 minutes.
As a PS resident w/ no kids, I gotta agree that the parents around here are some of the most insmae and worst parents I have ever met. When I see, as i did a few days ago, a mom try to persuade a two year old to get into her stroller for over 10 minutes I gotta say that is some crazy shit. I mean, its a two year (or less) old! Pick her up, put her in the stroller and move on! Crazzzzzyyyy!
Of course, while I hate PS, my wife loves it and will probably become one of those insane SAHM since she already works from home. Pray for me…and my future kids
I am a full time SAHM and a PhD candidate in developmental psychology. I want to provide some scientific back-up for the comments of Mr. NiceGuy, Jennifer and Joel.
Humans have something called an Attachment System. This attachment sytem is a biological structure which protects us from getting eaten/lost/killed when we are vulnerable infants. The Attachment System in an infant is activated when there is a threat or danger perceived. The biological reaction to that threat is to seek an Attachment Figure (usually mom or dad). If the parent is unresponsive or inconsistent to the seeking behavior by the infant, the Attachment System is damaged.
This system was first discovered by Bowlby during his observations of Resus Monkeys in their natural habitat. When a child develops a healthy attachment pattern with a “secure base” (i.e., a parent or caregiver who can provide CONSISTENT and RESPONSIVE caregiving), they have numerous positive outcomes in life. There are many studies that show higher IQ, better social skills and academic performance, even better marriage outcomes correlate with a secure attachment pattern.
Now, how do we develop this secure attachment pattern? It is by having a person who responds consistently and regularly to the infants needs. It is not essential for the parent to be a stay at home mom/dad for this to occur. However, as you can imagine, it is easier to be a reponsive parent if you are familiar with your child (yes, that means knowing about their poop, their developmental milestones like crawling, their likes and dislikes and all the other stuff that is discussed at the tot lot). I am simplifying Attachment Theory for the sake of this blog, but I think the basic message is clear: staying at home with your kids is not a bad choice.
So here is a shout out to all you SAHM/Ds out there – you are not only fortunate to have the financial resources to do what you are doing, but you are also giving your child the chance to develop a secure attachment pattern, which is the best gift you can give them!
Cocco, you are so wrong about stay at home moms. I know because I am one of them, and I know a lot of them. The women I know are well educated, including one Harvard MBA, successful career women who gave it up to stay at home to raise children. Not only is it far more rewarding than the best day on the job I ever had, but the difference you make in your child’s life by being with them day in and day out is worth any career sacrifices we make. It’s not a threat to feminism, in fact it embraces the very essence of feminism, being a woman and nurturing a family.
I’m not saying all women should stay at home, and it is not for everyone. However, if finances provide the option, and one has the desire, why not stay at home with your kids? Would anyone argue that children are better off in daycare or with a nanny? By providing the individual attention that only a parent can give a child, stay at home moms give their children the best advantage they can provide, a greater bond with their parent.
As for your comment, “They will never be CEOs ( unless it is for a cute but insignifigant children’s clothing company), never lead in public office, never make a dent on anything now,” I’d like to point out that most people will never be CEOs, never lead in public office, etc., and since when is that a barometer or success? Perhaps the real question is whether or not they enjoy what they do. If so, and a stay at home mom chooses to take a break from the work force to raise children because she loves being a mother, who are you to tell her that decision is not benefiting society? I’d argue that it benefits society far more than the ways you suggest by providing a stable nurturing environment for children. To suggest that after raising children all a woman would be good for would be as a nanny, that is really the antithesis of feminism, now isn’t it? And what about Madeline Albright? Would you suggest she should have been a nanny instead? Give me a break.
Cocco – you a really horridly mixed up person. Life is about tradeoffs, but I’m afraid you have your facts horribly wrong about almost everything. I hope you’re being hypothetical for the sake of your kid. As for your thesis, Madeline Albright anyone? – Joel
Here’s a vote for Amy Sohn. Being a SAHM is a ridiculous expectation of any educated, talented woman. From my experience, if you have been fortunate enough to pursue a career doing something you love, and your identity is strongly based on it, then don’t believe the SAHM propaganda. Giving up a huge part of your life for motherhood is an unnecessary sacrifice that will only make you miserable. Of course if you haven’t had the the skill, energy talent to do the thing you love, then of course be a SAHM. You can always turn it into a career as an au pair or professional nanny later on.
SAHM are a threat to feminism, because they have opted out of the fight to make the workplace more family friendly. They will never be CEOs ( unless it is for a cute but insignifigant children’s clothing company), never lead in public office, never make a dent on anything now (except their own children….which you can do as a working Mom as well).
And by staying at home they permit their husbands to perpetuate the long hours work culrture that drives so many moms out of professional work in the first place.
Aux armes citoyennes!!!!
Just ignore her. (Most people do) She’s only happy when she’s getting hate mail. You’re only taking the bait. You made her day when you called her a poor-man’s Carrie Bradshaw.
My favorite part of the Sohn article is where she states that childcare should be left to immigrant women trying to get a leg up. Um, what is the “up”? A better, less annoying employer than Amy Sohn? To have these kind of thoughts is disturbing, especially for a parent, but to actually publish them is quite amazing. But I suppose she is getting lots of press, and her byline hasn’t exactly been plastered around the mags lately. But let’s blame that on the baby.
Good to know Amy lives in Park Slope. I’ll have to be on the lookout for her so I can kick her.