A friend, who is a tad over 60, had a little trouble getting into Union Hall last night. And you thought they just wanted to keep babies and strollers out of there.
Keeping the Thugs Out of Union Hall
Some people (maybe it’s mostly women) apparently like to be carded, especially when it’s obvious they’re well over the drinking age. I don’t, and I think it’s silly (a word I have since regretted) for someone of 60 and looks close to it.
Went to Union Hall, my neighborhood bar earlier this week and tried to saunter in. But was stopped by a voice growling "you have to see me first." Turning, I noticed a bouncer type who I hadn’t even seen as I walked up to the door; certainly a few weeks ago he wasn’t in evidence.
I need to see ID, he says
I laugh a bit (mistake #1) and say That’s a but silly (mistake #2) isn’t it?
There’s the rule on the door, he growls.
OK, I say as I fish out my wallet, but I do think it’s silly for a 60-year old guy to be carded. And I am, if not smiling, certainly not belligerent as I say this. By this time I had my license in my hand.
That’s it, he says, you’re not going in.
What?
You’re not going in. You refused to show your license and were arguing about it.
Hardly arguing I said, it’s called expressing an opinion, and since I have my license out right here, how is that refusing?
He wouldn’t budge. But did want me to do so, claiming I was "impeding traffic," in spite of several people walking in and out of the door I was not in front of. I demanded to see the manager, setting up a Catch-22 as I wasn’t allowed in to see him, and he obviously wasn’t going to do me a favor by calling for him. I considered calling Union Hall but the thought of using my cell-phone provider’s so-called directory service was too daunting.
He then grabbed my arm (admittedly, not forcefully,) and said I’d have to step off "private property." At which point I got…what…annoyed? and said if he touched me again I’d call the cops.
Go ahead he says. And so I made my first-ever call to 911 and said I was in trouble at the Union Hall on Union Street in Brooklyn, a combination that took some time to convey, leading me to believe that I were in real trouble, I wouldn’t have been able to complete the call.
My friend K who I was meeting showed up then. As I explained, he reluctantly went in to get the manager (nice of the bouncer to let him in, but then K was white and better dressed than I was) and came out after a few seconds and said that the bartender and the bouncer were mutually in charge.
Waited for the 911 response about 10 minutes, also mulling it over with K, who seemed to think I was in the wrong. I guess some people think that "arguing," (even if I didn’t do that,) with anyone in authority puts you automatically in the wrong.
So my question to Union Hall’s owners is: what exactly is that man doing there? Warding off the hordes of trouble-makers who are trying to storm Union Hall and terrorize the yuppies in there? Keep the homeless out? Or just harass an unassuming local guy who wanted a quiet beer with his friend and has a sarcastic manner?
One of the posters on this blog invoked Naziism? Ouch, the argument’s over.
Does anybody read the post?
for example:
“What happened when the police arrived? “Hello Officer, I called 911 because this bouncer will not let me in because I do not have ID.” Genius!”
How about “Hello Officer, I called 911 because I laughed while I was displaying my ID that this bouncer thought that I might be one third of my age, and then he committed battery .”
If the bouncer gave the impression that he would escalate the situation beyond arm grabbing ( any touching without permission is battery , try grabbing a cops arm and see what happens ) then of course that would be assault.
I am not a lawyer , but I can use google for bouncers battery law
and this is typical
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/nightclubbouncer-liability.html
Anybody who says the complaint is about not getting into union hall or not having ID is beyond stupid.
Clearly, “Prefer Anonymity,” the bouncer was an insecure, robotic ego-maniac, but if we presume that you are not, why wouldn’t you have just internally laughed him off and dismissed him as a child-in-bouncer’s-clothing, and worked around him, rather than engage in the very kind of power struggle a guy like that loves and lives for? I’m not saying you should have submitted to anything, but if you had maintained an adult perspective, you would have been in that bar, having your drink with your friend, instead of being the subject of these postings.
i can’t believe how many comments there are that are against the 60-year old guy, come on people give me (and him) a break, if he is 60 im sure that he probably looks older than 21, what is the point of carding him? its just common sense, and obviously there was no need for the bouncer to act out a total powertrip, its just so silly…calling the police is silly too but i guess who else would you tell?
What happened when the police arrived? “Hello Officer, I called 911 because this bouncer will not let me in because I do not have ID.” Genius!
Interesting, how people are myopic. When you accept Iraq war lies and other stuff authorities send down your throat, you accept the authority of bouncers. Union Hall was busted for allowing under age drinkers, not over 50 years. If Union Hall had common sense would not have allowed under aged people in its premise. So the bouncer is doing his job, the nazis were doing their job. KBR is doing its job, over charging the government. waw…Don’t worry, pretty soon Union Hall will be closing. See: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=theme&themeId=2
Life goes on…Enjoy the concentration camps they have built, for sheeps like most of you.
They have to card everyone? Really? Even when you’re old enough to be grandfather to a patron of drinking age? The writer seemed to believe that if he’d been more caucasian and dressed “better”, whatever that means, he’d have been allowed to saunter in, and he was there to notice if every individual was being carded. Doesn’t sound like it.
The writer was planning to meet someone, so going elsewhere really wasn’t a good option.
Universal carding is not the issue, it’s the attitude of the doorman. If you would read carefully, never did I “refuse” to show him my ID, nor even delay him more than the time it took for the first interchange (and there was no line). This was “making it harder?” I even said “you’re just doing your job”.
Regarding the comment about my surprise, while I can’t say I’ve visited every PS bar, I can’t think of many that card. And UH did not the last several times I visited.
I was neither rude, belligerent nor drunk. The doorman did not like my saying anything at all, and acted on it, and I do wonder whether my ratty T-shirt and being non-white affected the issue, which, btw, I rarely think.
While I may have overreacted, that was not until the doorman grabbed me.
I guess people prefer to side blindly with authority figures. Can you comment on that, Peter?
i agree with matt – there are plenty of other bars that have very strict rules about needing to have an ID and show it, regardless of age. the bouncer could have been a little more gingerly, but the 911 call seems a *bit* out of line and retaliatory.
The poster is right to call “bullshit” on Union Hall. This is a prime example of the “death of common sense.” He’s 61 frickin’ years old – he doesn’t need to be carded.
And for those numb-nuts out there who say “well, the bouncer is only doing is job” – c’mon: Don’t we all know by now that unquestioning employees who shroud themselves in their petty adherence to rules has the potential to result in catastrophe? An extreme example could be the SS guards in Germany who were just “following orders”, but there are thousands of other seemingly trivial examples where such pettiness yields (at best) to bureaucratic bungling which is the bane of a civilized society.
Calling 911 was a waste of taxpayer time and money, though.
It would be better to sit there and ridicule the bouncer until
Union Hall flushed itself down the toilet the minute they had to hire a bouncer. I was there for the opening and early days, and still go in for a cheap beer periodically, but the AQ (asshole quotient) has risen high enough that they actually NEED a bouncer. That means the place isn’t somewhere I want to go, because if you need a big beefy guy to prevent people from getting in fights, that means that people in the place are likely to start punching each other. I don’t care how many drinks I have, if it’s a place where someone might slug me for something I say, it’s not somewhere I want to be.
Whew! If this story isn’t a reason to remain detached from a neighborhood, I don’t know what is? Who’s worse, the robotic bouncer or the desperately argumentative patron? Who cares?!
Thanks for posting your experience. The place looks nice from the outside, but after reading this, I will stay away. Who needs it? I would rather go for my “quiet beer” somewhere else, where people are a little friendlier and know how to be polite to a customer.
I’m with Jack here. I don’t get it. You mean someone didn’t let your friend into a private establishment so he called 911? What exactly did the cops do when they showed up? Laugh?
I’m not saying who was in the wrong here, but *generally* things like this happen for a reason.
Union Hall had a very big and public bust for allowing underage drinking a few months ago. I’m sure they were fined many thousands of dollars as a result. The bouncer and the “card-everyone-no-exceptions” rule is due to this.
Your ignorant and incredulous response may not have deserved the banning, but neither did a banning deserve a 911 call. Be careful of calling people on overreacting when you overreact yourself.
I agree that the bouncer was in the right. Sorry. I sort of see your side in this but the bouncer was just doing his job. By the way you tell your story, it sounds as if you’ve never been to a bar before. I find that hard to believe. It’s simple, really. If the bouncer asks for ID, you show it to him, go in and everyone gets on with their lives. You made this harder for everyone. And then you called 911, wasting city resources and blew any case you may of had.
I agree that the bouncer was in the right. Sorry. I sort of see your side in this but the bouncer was just doing his job. By the way you tell your story, it sounds as if you’ve never been to a bar before. I find that hard to believe. It’s simple, really. If the bouncer asks for ID, you show it to him, go in and everyone gets on with their lives. You made this harder for everyone. And then you called 911, wasting city resources and blew any case you may of had.
I work for a Party Promotion Company that promotes in East Village, LES and Brooklyn. We meet and work with a lot of Bouncers, some very nice and casual about there job and some carrying a huge chip on there shoulder. I doubt it was that you were 60 but more that you were undermining his limited power. I have been thrown out of parties we were hosting for being to sarcastic with the bouncer.
Rules are: Restaurants/bars/venues of entertainment and shopping that are used primarily by younger white people are allowed to do as they please and will be defended on all internet blogs,etc.
Those over a certain age and real estate developers are always in the wrong and must be criticized and harassed.
I have a few comments about this post:
1) I do think the fact that they needed to card you is ridiculous, but at the same time, if the manager of union hall tells the bouncer to ID everyone, the bouncer needs to follow this. I had a work event recently and know the head of security well, yet he made me show my work ID to get in. i thought it was weird, but then again, he’s just doing his job.
2) it sounds like the bouncer got a little carried away, but i think union hall is more sensitive than most other bars when it comes to going into the bar b/c of noise concerns in the area.
3) I’m glad my tax $s went into the police investigation of this “horrible” event.
He called 911? Seriously? That’s freaking ridiculous. The bouncer was in the right to the extent that carding people on entrance to a bar is required. Be they 21 or 91, it may be silly, but with all the troubles UH has had, I think a “no exception” policy is best. At what point do you stop carding? 25? 30? Who can tell? There have been guys carding at the door at UH since the day they opened, but only when it’s busy enough inside that it would be a burden on the bartenders to remember if they’d carded someone. They have to card. It’s the law. It sounds to me like your friend is just a righteous prick. Heck, why would he even want to go to UH? It’s a terrible bar filled with obnoxious people!